Several months ago I bought a vintage Stanley miter box. It didn’t really need much work to clean up and get working which was just how I like it. A little rust removal and I replaced the bed with a clean piece of Poplar. The problem was the saw. I do intend to one day give it a complete makeover but my readers probably already know that I’m not a big fan of working on tools when I can be working with tools to build something else.
So when Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks told me he was going to start making miter box saws, I jumped at the opportunity. I may have a 3 year old iPhone but when it comes to woodworking tools I’m nothing but an early adopter. So beyond the honor of being the first and only owner of a Bad Axe Miter Saw, my vintage miter box is now a top performer that slices through wood with abandon. The cuts are dead accurate and clean and smooth. The accuracy relies mostly on the box itself since it guides the saw, but a poorly tuned saw makes cutting at the box a slog. Most miter saws have a higher pitch count so they produce a cleaner cut. In many instances they have a very relaxed rake so that they slide across the wood easily.
Mark has created a saw that balances the rake, fleam, and pitch equation perfectly so that it cuts very fast, accurately, and cleanly. However…
This saw is 20″ long as compared to the 24″ length of the vintage saw. I think I may have gotten used to the longer stroke of the old saw. While the new saw still cuts faster I keep pulling the toe of the Bad Axe saw out of the guides. My old saw had a 1/4″ hole drilled in the plate near the back that I put a bolt through. This prevented me from pulling the saw out of the guide.
The simple solution seems to be that I drill a hole in the plate of my new saw to insert the stop. I would rather put the stop bolt through the back as it would give me just a little more reach on the stroke plus the bolt will be run through a thicker piece and less likely to damage the saw plate when the bolt strikes the guides on a back stroke.
So it’s question time.
- For those of you that have a vintage miter box, what measures are in place to prevent the saw from pulling out of the guide posts?
- Does any one see an issue with drilling a hole through the back or the plate? Will I damage my new saw? (I have asked Mark this question too BTW)
Comment from Mark Harrell
“Shannon, FYI, I deliberately launched a 20″ miter saw specifically for the smaller boxes such as the Stanley No. 150 and the Millers Falls No. 200. Both of which have a significantly narrower span between the guide posts for the actual cut. In the Stanley 150′s case it has a metal sleeve that eliminates this limitation and allows for maximum cutting action with the 20″ saw. The same applies for the Millers Falls No. 200 only it’s a metal hoop frame rather than the Stanley sleeve concept. Both technologies work wonderfully well, and I like the ease of portability and compactness of both products.”
**Update 2/13/12**
I took the advice from the comments below and stuck rare earth magnets on both sides right at the toe of the saw. It worked great. The magnets don’t prevent the saw from pulling out but they offer a little resistance and a clear “clink” sound when they hit the box guide posts. That is enough for me to halt my stroke and to train my body where to stop. After cutting with these in place for 5 minutes the clinking went away as I had learned the optimal stroke just by listening. Whaddaya know that Pavlov guy was on to something!
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haha.. i’m trying to think of all the things i’d be willing to do before i drilled a hole through a new bad axe saw and stuck a bolt in it..
i’ll get back to you when i’m done..
Drill baby drill!
Is Mark going to be making longer saws in the future?
I know Mark has larger hand saws in the works so once he has a supplier and the QC stuff worked out for larger saw plates, I don’t see why he wouldn’t offer larger miter saws too.
Matt I have a response from Mark Harrell that I can quote you on this topic,
“I’ll eventually make longer miter box saws, but right now I need to focus on whacking the Bad Axe backlog down from a 4 month wait to a 1 month wait without sacrificing quality or increased production. It’s a tall order, but I know I’ll get there. Once we hit this goal, then comes longer miter saws for the bigger boxes, along with hand and panel saws.”
Great to know Mark’s business is doing so well and that he has an eye on efficiency WITH quality instead of just introducing new products.
Has anyone heard of anyone out there that actually wants to make the miter box itself, not just the saws? Going vintage is great but takes time to find a good specimen and you never really know until you get the thing in front of you. I’d rather just shell out a little more for a brand-spanking new one that I know will be top shelf. Did I just volunteer myself to start making them?
I believe this is on Lie Nielsen’s drawing board. Then again based on my conversation with Thomas Lie Nielsen last summer, they have most tools on their drawing boards.
Could you attach a tiny C-clamp at the spot where you would drill the hole, to accomplish the same purpose but as a temporary non-destructive method?
I was actually thinking along the same lines just now except I would add a small block with a kerf in it that slides over the plate. Then I can thread a bolt in from the side for a more permanent solution without drilling the plate.
Sounds about right!
I did a double take on your miter box. I have a Wards Power-Kraft miter box that is a duplicate of your Stanley. Would you please tell me if there’s a second spring on the back saw post? I purchased my miter box for $6 at a garage sale and it only has a spring on the front saw post. If there is a second spring, I’m not sure where I would find one, or if it would present a problem in using the saw without it.
The saw that came with mine measures 22 1/2 inches along the teeth edge. It is obviously an economy saw with about 12 TPI and does not have the wonderful handle yours has. I was wondering if people with shorter arms would find a 20 inch saw length a problem as far as pulling the end of the saw back past the rear post support? The clamp idea seems like a good one for the interim, until Bad Axe comes out with a longer saw plate.
There should be only on spring Dean. The spring on the front works to angle the saw specifically on the back stroke so you don’t drag the teeth back through the cut potentially fouling the cut and prematurely dulling the teeth. There should be stop collars on both the front and back through that need to be set to prevent you cutting too far into the bed. These can also be cut to a specific depth for non through cuts like dados.
I don’t think a 20″ saw will cause anyone problems. My natural saw stroke does want to pull the very tip out of the box and this is just barely. Logically anyone with a shorter stroke than me would be fine as the length of arms won’t effect the cut so much over this small area.
Hi Shannon!
How about two neodyme magnets on two sides of the back? Will add some mass, is totally detachable and should slower/prevent the saw emerging from the guides.
Haven’t tried it, but thought maybe a cheap solution to try out.
Regards,
Lukasz.
That is so simple it is brilliant! I have several 1/2″ and 1/4″ rare earth magnets that would be perfect. I don’t really need a stop but a gentle “reminder” would be sufficient. I’m going to give this a shot as soon as I get back to my shop.
Shannon:
I personally would have to think long and hard about putting a bolt through my new saw. If I did feel it necessary, I think I would drill a hold at the tip end of the spline and use a brass rod, peening both ends, making it look like was an intended part of the saw. That way, if you ever have to remove the saw, you could easily drill out the brass rod stopper. Just a thought. ———–Skip
That would be a more elegant solution, but the work required to remove the saw from the box would probably force me to keep using it long after I needed to remove it and sharpen it.
Shannon my stanley no- 358 miter box has a y shaped clamp with a set screw in it that clamps onto the spine of the saw . The clamp is made for the saw by Stanley and works great. one twist with a screwdriver and you can take the saw out of the box.