RWW #95 The Super Chute

Hello, remember when I used to make podcasts? I’m back and hopefully with a bang as I try out and review what I feel is the slickest shooting board on the market. Don’t know what a shooting board is? Watch this and see how a shooter should work.

Check out Tico Vogt’s site and if so inclined pick up one of these beauties. If you are going to Woodworking in America (and if not, why not???) stop by and say hello to Tico and try out the Super Chute there.

18 Responses to “RWW #95 The Super Chute”

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  1. Jimmy Bays says:

    UHMW (Ultra High Moleculare Weight) Great review. Thanks for all you do.

  2. Derek Cohen says:

    For reference (since this is not acknowledged on Ticos website), Tico has essentially used my fence design (with a minor variation), along with accessories.

    One of my articles (written 2 years ago): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection.html

    What is the same/different? Tico altered the connection (from the one I used) for the donkeys ear (I cannot understand why – his version loses adjustment capability), but kept the mitre fence as is. His simplification of the main fence design appears to be done for ease of mass production (my version has a sliding face for increased rigidity).

    Please note that I do not claim credit for the ramped board concept. Essentially this design I should go to Michael Connors. My input was to add design the micro-adjustable fence system, the accessories and their attachment to the main fence.

    Overall Tico has done a nice job and this looks to be a great tool.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. Looks like a great shooting board, Shannon. The genius, though, lies in that little allen key with the handle glued to it (grin). I’ve got to make one of those for my LV surface vise.

    Cheers — Larry

  4. Tico Vogt says:

    Wow, Shannon, I’ve got two words: you’re hired! Thanks for the friendly and very complete review. I envy your comfort in front of the camera.

    Let me add that the bearing strip is actually acetal. It is smoother than the UHMW that is on the runway. The Super Chute is made of Maple MDF. After making prototypes, I determined that veneer plywood was unreliable when it came to flatness. The MDF is heavier, which adds to shipping costs, and it’s dust is very unwelcome to work with, but that’s what is needed. The Donkey Ear and the Miter Gauge are made from veneer plywood.

    You picked up on all the little things that I’ve felt were important to include with this appliance and I much appreciate your sharing them in these demonstrations.

    All the best, and a special thanks from Peach Pie.

    Tico

  5. Neil says:

    I fully understand the shooting board and this product now, that little extra bearing strip was explained well …Thanks!!!

  6. Duncan says:

    Welcome back (to video podcasting)! Don’t know how you manage to make the time with everything else you do, but I’m sure glad you do. Thanks.

  7. Tico Vogt says:

    Well, in response to Derek’s comment, my first blog entry about it on my website http://www.ticovogt.com/?p=250 says:

    “Many individuals have been helpful in my efforts here. Reading Derek Cohen’s excellent blog and Robert Wearing’s “Hand Tools for Woodworkers,” as well as personal e-mails from Ron Brese, Tom Fidgen, Rob Hanson, George Walker, Konrad Sauer, Matt Hodgson, and David Charlesworth.”

    If I want to get into it a bit, though, I will contend that the choice of materials for the runway and bearing strip don’t exist on other designs (that I’m aware of), and the angle of the ramp is steeper than Derek’s, the flatness and stability of the MDF veneered material are different from the hardwood shooting boards made by Derek and others I’ve seen. What this entails is a great deal of solid lipping work. I made a fair number of prototypes and discovered that I would not consider offering them for sale in solid wood, even quarter-sawn, or veneer plywood.
    There is adjustment ability in the Donkey Ear: the bottom 1/4″ x 3/4″ strips of Maple have a centered wood screw which can be loosened so that shims can easily be place under any corner, and the locating holes in the back have plenty of room for it to move forward or back.
    I can show you pictures of fences for jigs around my shop that operate on the same lines as the fence that Derek uses, for example. Tage Frid was an early influence on me, and I believe there is a universal logic to many commonsense shop solutions that we come up with.

    My hope is to offer a very useful product to woodworkers. What is difficult is not working out all the stuff. That’s just plain fun. Making objects and putting them in the marketplace, shipping and selling to Joe Schmo in East B’Jesus, that’s another kettle of fish.

  8. Derek Cohen says:

    Tico

    If you want to get into it, you must be honest and show where you got your ideas.

    The design of the fence attachment and the associated accessories was mine. The designs were on my website at least 2 years ago-the very website you credit reading: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection.html

    The design for the shootiong board, per se, comes from Michael Connor: http://www.michealconnorwoodwork.com.au/workbenchesaccessories.htm

    The use of UHMW – both for the runway and the bearing sidestrip – were posted on the UK forum 2 years ago, and have been posted there (and other places) since: http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/shooting-board-t22536.html?highlight=uhmw shooting board

    The fact is that you did not ask me if you could use my designs. I offer them (and other tools, etc) on my website freely for personal use, but they are not to be commercialised. It would have been polite to contact me. I am very approachable, as most know on various woodwork forums.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  9. Chris Vesper says:

    Well it looks like a near enough copy of the Cohen shooting board design to me, complete with identical accessories albiet made from another material.

    Tico, did you ever actually ask permission to use Derek’s design or ideas?

  10. I am so overdue for a good shooting board in the shop. Its one of those things I keep putting on the back burner. But I think this video pushed me over the edge. Sometimes its just easier to spend a few bucks to get something pre-made and ready to use. I’ll be heading to Tico’s site tonight. Thanks for the demo Shannon.

  11. Neil Lamens says:

    Well Boys……..having recently spoken to a an Advanced Furniture Design class, the premise of the presentation was to always REFERENCE -REFERENCE-REFERENCE.

    As moderator of a Design Forum—posters are called-out when a REFERENCE is needed and not used.

    Eventually in some form a lack of reference catches up to you.

    This lack of substance with the internet woodworker is just more evidence of mediocrity and lack of leadership.

    The demo video no matter who’s wants design credit was still done well.

  12. Tico Vogt says:

    I never saw the UK forum post. The sources for the idea of the acetal strip as a runner began with considering Rober Wearing’s use of a piece of laminate or hard plastic from signs. I contacted people in the plastic industry and acetal is the recommended solution I’ve settled on. The idea of the UHMD was contributed to me in an e-mail from Ron Brese: “The UMHW material that is used on table saw fences may be the ideal material for the bed and the guide.” Before that, the mock ups I had made used plastic laminate to cover the runway surface and Ron and few other plane makers I queried suggested it might scratch the planes.
    This past March I set out to make a product that incorporated ideas from various sources that would be useful to woodworkers and actually be something I could produce in small quantities in my shop. The Super Chute is not the same board as Derek Cohen’s- different materials, different ramp angle, different hardware, but it is very similar in basic appearance and function. A very big difference between the two, as I’ve said previously, is that the SC is made from MDF material, lipped with solid wood which involves mitered pieces, the acetal is let into the sides, and all in all, a much more labor intensive and challenging product to deliver.

    Look, what is it that you’re suggesting I do, have a caveat that reads ( *with ideas borrowed from Derek Cohen, Ron Brese, Michael Connor, Robert Wearing…”) Not bloody likely.

    In manufacturing the Super Chute I have come up with jig solutions that I believe are far and away more involved, interesting, and potentially unique than the actual simple mechanisms of the board itself. There will be posts about them and it will be fair game for anybody to go out and use the ideas. My blessings will be upon you.

  13. Tico Vogt says:

    The name Super Chute itself was actually something I had come up with on my own. Then, about a month ago, I googled the name expecting to see my shooting board, only to find the name already in use for rope bags, soccer, and NASA applications.

  14. Derek Cohen says:

    “As moderator of a Design Forum—posters are called-out when a REFERENCE is needed and not used”.

    Well said, Neil (and nice blog). Common ethics – not to mention legalities insome situations – requires that one identifies the parties involved and the part they played.

    “Not bloody likely” …. “..fair game for anybody to go out and use the ideas”.

    Tico, that is just charming.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. Woodcanuck says:

    Really great video Shannon…I don’t yet have such a beast…but I think your video may have convinced me.

    I think I’ll be looking for Tico at WIA…maybe he gives discounts to fans of your podcasts. :-)

    Ian

  16. Larry Williams says:

    First I want to apologize to Shannon for stepping into his blog and continuing the rude and ugly mess that’s been made. That said, there are some things that should be said here.

    In part Derek wrote, “…Well said, Neil (and nice blog). Common ethics – not to mention legalities insome situations – requires that one identifies the parties involved and the part they played.

    “Not bloody likely” …. “..fair game for anybody to go out and use the ideas”.

    Tico, that is just charming.”

    Well, for the life of me I can’t find where, on his web site, Derek cites Jeff Gorman or Good Woodworking magazine for the design of the ramped shooting board or even it’s name. I first became aware of the “ramped shuting board” in a 1997 oldtools post by Jeff.

    A link to that archived post:
    http://tinyurl.com/27alfxf

    In that post, Jeff posted a link that’s no longer valid but he now has the information up at:
    http://tinyurl.com/24zpu7a

    Derek claims to have innovated a fence adjustment. This is a common mechanical adjustment found on all kinds of things and the use is obvious. Yet, there is an old design using this. Here’s a .pdf of an ad from 1841:
    http://tinyurl.com/35ogye7

    There isn’t much new in hand tools, not much that hasn’t been done before. If one wants to have a tantrum about citation, they ought to do their own homework and get citations in their own stuff.

    • Shannon says:

      Thanks for your thoughts everyone and Larry, I appreciate the thought, but I personally have been fascinated by this conversation. It is very relevant to all woodworkers who think about selling their work. With our craft being thousands of years old, it is hard to claim an original thought, but we need to be conscious of credit where credit it due. I think we also need to consider our individual market influence and how the internet has shrunken our boundaries. Thanks to everyone for such a stimulating conversation, now lets go make some stuff!

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